Transcript of BriefingsDirect podcast on the infrastructure management and security challenges of virtualization.
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Dana Gardner: Hi, this is Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions, and you’re listening to BriefingsDirect. Today, a sponsored podcast discussion about virtualization, and how to better improve management of virtualization, to gain better security using virtualization techniques, and also to find methods for compliance and regulation -- but without the pitfalls of complexity and mismanagement.
We're going to be talking about virtualization best practices with several folks who are dealing with this at several different levels. We're going to hearing from VMware, Unisys and LogLogic.
Let me introduce our panel today. First, we're joined by Charu Chaubal, senior architect for technical marketing, at VMware. Welcome, Charu.
Charu Chaubal: Thank you.
Gardner: We're also joined by Chris Hoff, chief security architect at Unisys. Hi, Chris.
Chris Hoff: Hi, how are you?
Gardner: Great. Also, Dr. Anton Chuvakin, chief logging evangelist and a security expert at LogLogic. Welcome to the show.
Dr. Anton Chuvakin: Hello. Thank you.
Gardner: Virtualization has certainly taken off, and this is nothing new to VMware. Organizations like Unisys are now doing quite a bit to help organizations that utilize, expand, and enjoy the benefits of virtualization. But virtualization needs to be done the correct way, without avoid pitfalls. If you do it too tactically, without allowing it to be part of an IT lifecycle and without management, then the fruits and benefits of virtualization can be largely lost.
Before we get into what virtualization can do, what to avoid, and how to better approach it, I'd like to just take a moment and try to determine why virtualization is really hot and taking off in the market now.
Let's start with Chris Hoff at Unisys. Some of these technologies have been around for many years. What is it about this point in time that is really making virtualization so hot?
Hoff: It's the confluence of quite a few things, and we see this sort of event happen in information technology (IT) quite often. You have the practically perfect storm of economics, technology, culture, and business coming together at one really interesting point in time.
The first thing that comes to mind is when people think about the benefits. The reasons people are virtualizing are cost, cost savings and then cost avoidance, which is usually seconded by agility and flexibility. It’s also about being able to, as an IT organization, service your constituent customers in a manner that is more in line with the way business functions, which is, in many cases, quite a fast pace -- with the need to be flexible.
These things are contributing a lot to the uptake, not to mention the advent of a lot of new technology in both hardware and software, which is starting to enable some of this to be more realistic in a business environment.
Gardner: Now over to VMware. Charu, tell us how deep and wide virtualization is emerging? It seems like people are using it in more and more ways, and in more and more places.
Chaubal: That's right. When the x86 virtualization first started out, maybe 10 years ago in a big way, it was largely being used in test and development types of environments. Over the last five years, it's definitely started to enter the production arena as well. We see more and more customers running even mission-critical applications on virtualization technologies.
Furthermore, we also see it across the board in terms of customer size, where everyone from the smallest customer to the very largest enterprises, are expanding further and further with their virtual environments.
Gardner: Let's go to LogLogic. Tell me, Anton, what sort of security and what sort of preventative measures are you helping your customers with in terms of gaining the visibility and the analytics about what's going on among these many moving parts? Many of these deployments are in now in an automated mode, more so than before they were virtualized. What are some of the issues that are you helping people deal with?
Chuvakin: You were exactly right about the visibility into the environments. As people deploy different types of IT infrastructure, first physical and now virtual, there is always a challenge of figuring out what happens with those PCs, at those PCs, which people are trying to connect to, or even attack them, and do all these at the same time around the clock.
Adding virtualization to the technology that people use in such a massive way as it's occurring now brings up the challenges of how do we know what happens in those environments. Is there anybody trying to abuse them, just use them, or use them inappropriately? Is there a lack of auditability and control in those environments? Logs are definitely one of the ways, or I would say a primary way, of gaining that visibility for most IT compliance, and virtualization is no exception.
As a result, as people deploy VMware and applications in a couple of virtual platforms, the challenge is knowing what actually happens on those platforms, what happens in those virtual machines (VMs), and what happens with the applications. Logging and LogLogic play a very critical role in not only collecting those bits and pieces, but also creating a big picture or a view of that activity across other organizations.
Virtualization definitely solves some of the problems, but at the same time, it brings in and brings out new things, which people really aren't used to dealing with. For example, it used to be that if you monitor a server, you know where the server is, you then know how to monitor it, you know what applications run there.
In virtual environments, that certainly is true, but at the same time it adds another layer of this server going somewhere else, and you monitor where it was moved, where it is now, and basically perform monitoring as servers come up and down, disappear, get moved, and that type of stuff.
Gardner: Now, Chris at Unisys, when you're dealing with customers, based on what we've heard about this expansion of virtualization, you're dealing with it on an applications level, and also on the infrastructure and server level.
What’s more, some folks are now getting into desktop virtualization infrastructure and delivering whole desktop interfaces out to end-user devices. This impacts not just a server. We're talking about network devices and storage devices. This is a bit more than a tactical issue. It really starts getting strategic pretty quickly.
Hoff: That's absolutely correct. If you really look at virtualization as an enabling technology or platform, as we can look out to the next three years of large companies use from the perspective of their strategic plans, you'll notice that there is a large trend toward what you might call "real-time infrastructure."
The notion here is about how you apply and take this enabling technology in the benefits of virtualization and leverage that to provide automation re-purposing. You have to deal with elements and issues that relate to charge-back for assets, as IT becomes more of a utility service.
If we look further out from there, we look at the governance issues of what it means to not really focus on hardware anymore, or even applications -- but on service and service levels. It gets a lot more strategic at times, played out all along the continuum.
While we focus virtualization on the notion of infrastructure and technology, what's really starting to happen now -- and what's important with the customers that we deal with -- is being able to unite both business process and business strategy, along with the infrastructure and the architecture that support it.
So we're a little excited and frothed up as it relates to all the benefits of virtualization today, and the bigger picture is even more exciting and interesting. That's going to fundamentally continue to cause us to change what we do and how we do it, as we move forward. Visibility is very important, but understanding the organizational and operational impacts that real-time infrastructure and virtualization bring, is really going to be an interesting challenge for folks to get their hands around.
Gardner: Now, Charu at VMware, you obviously are building out what you consider the premier platform and approach to virtualization technically. You've heard, obviously, the opportunity for professional services and methodologies for approaching this, and you have third parties like LogLogic that are trying to provide better visibility across many different systems and devices.
How are you using this information in terms of what you bring to the management table for folks who are moving from, say, tactical to more strategic use of virtualization?
Chaubal: A lot of customers are expanding their virtualization so much now, to the point where they're hitting some interesting challenges that they maybe wouldn't have hit before. One great example is around compliance, such as Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards (PCI) compliance. There are a lot of questions right now around virtualizing those systems that process credit card holder data.
Chaubal: They're asking, "If I do this, am I going to be compliant with PCI? Is this something that's a realistic possibility? If it is, how do I go about demonstrating this to an auditor?"
This is where partners like LogLogic come into play, because they have the tools that can help achieve this. We believe that VMware provides a compliance-ready type of platform, so it is something you can achieve compliance with. But, in order to demonstrate and maintain that compliance, it's useful to have these tools from partners that can help you do that.
Gardner: Now, Anton at LogLogic, you're able to examine a number of different systems, gather information, correlate that information, do analytics, and provide a picture of what should be happening. Or, when something is not happening, you can look for the reasons why and look for aberrant or unusual behavior. So let's address security a little bit.
What are some of the challenges in terms of security when you move from a physical environment for compute power and resources to a virtualized environment? Then second, what about the mixture? It is obviously going to be both physical and virtualized instances of infrastructure and applications. Tell us about the security implications.
Chuvakin: I just follow the same logic I used for our recent webcast about virtualization security. In this webcast, I basically presented a full view of things that are the same and that are different in virtualized environments. I'll use the same structure, because some people who get too frothy, as Greg put it, about virtualization just stick to "virtualization changes everything." That is used sometimes as an excuse to not do things that you should continue doing in a virtualized environment.
Let's start from what things are the same. When you migrate from a physical to a virtual infrastructure, you certainly still have servers and applications running in those servers and you have people managing those servers. That leaves you with the need to monitor the same audit and the same security technologies that you use. You shouldn't stop. You shouldn't throw away your firewalls. You shouldn't throw away your log analysis tool, because you still have servers and applications.
They might be easier to monitor in virtual environments. It might sometimes be harder, but you shouldn't change things that are working for you in the physical environment, because virtualization does change a few things. At the same time, the fact that you have applications, servers, and they serve you for business purposes, shouldn't stop you from doing useful things you're doing now.
Now, an additional layer on top of what you already have adds the new things that come with virtualization. The fact that this server might be there one day, but be gone tomorrow -- or not be not there one day and be built up and used for a while and then removed -- definitely brings the new challenges to security monitoring, security auditing in figuring out who did what where.
The definition of "who" didn't change. It's still a user, but what and where definitely did change. I mean, if it was done on a certain server, in virtual environment it might not be a server -- it might be a virtual image, which adds additional complexities
There are also new things that just don't have any occurrence in the physical environment -- for example, a rogue VM, a VM that is built by somebody who is not authorized to run VMs. It might be the end user who actually has his own little mini infrastructure. It brings up all sorts of forensic challenges that you have now solved. You don't just investigate a machine. You investigate a machine with a virtual platform, with another server on top, or another desktop on top.
This is my view of things that are the same that you should continue doing and things that are new that you should start learning how to audit and how to analyze the activity in the virtual environments, as well as how to do forensics, if what you have is a machine with potential a rogue VM.
Gardner: How about you, Chris at Unisys, how do you view implications for security and risk mitigation when it comes to moving increasingly into virtualized environments?
Hoff: I have to take a pretty pragmatic approach. The reality is that there are three conversations and three separate questions that need to be addressed, when you're talking about security in virtualized environments.
Unfortunately, what usually happens is that all three of them are combined into one giant question, which tends to lead to more confusion. So I like to separate the virtualization and security questions into three parts.
One of them is securing virtualization, and understanding what the impacts are on your architecture, your infrastructure, and your business process and models, when you introduce this new virtualization layer. That's really about securing the underlying virtualization platforms and understanding what happens and what changes when you introduce that, assuming that you have a decent understanding of what that means, and how that will ultimately flow down operationally.
The second point or question to address is one of virtualizing security, which is actually the operational element of, "What does it mean, and how do I go about taking what I might do in the physical world, and replicate that and/or even improve it in the virtual world?"
That's an interesting question, assuming that you have a good understanding of architecture and things that matter most to you, and how you might protect them, or how you might not be doing that. You may find several gaps today in your ability to actually do what you do in the physical world.
The third element is security through virtualization, which is okay, assuming that I have a good architectural blueprint and that I understand the impacts, the models, who and what changes operationally, how I have to go about securing things, and what benefits I get out of virtualization.
How do I actually improve my security posture by using these platforms and this technology? If you look at that, if you look at it in that way, you really are able to start dealing with the issues associated with each category. You could probably guess that if you mixed all three of them up, you could go down one path, and very easily be distracted by another.
When we break out the conversations with customers like that, it always comes back to a very basic premise that we seem to have forgotten in our industry. Despite all the technology, despite all the tools, and all of the things that go blinky-blink at night, the reality is that this comes down to being able to appropriately manage risk. That starts with understanding the things that matter to you most and using risk assessment frameworks and processes.
In a gross analogy, when you go to a grocery store and you take time to pack your frozen goods in one bag, and your canned goods and your soft goods in other bags, you use this compartmentalization, understanding what the impact is of all of the wonderful mobility, balanced with compliance and security needs.
If you got home, and you've got canned goods in with your fruit, the reality is that you've not done a good job of compartmentalizing and understanding what the impact of one good might have on the other.
The same thing applies in the virtual world. If you don't take the time to go back to the basics, understanding the impact of the infrastructure and the changes -- you're going to be a world of hurt later, even if you get the cost benefits and all the wonderful agility and mobility.
We really approach it pragmatically in a rational manner, such that people understand both the pluses, the pros and the cons of virtualization in their environments.
Gardner: We've determined that virtualization is quite hot. It's ramping up quickly. A number of studies have shown a 50-70 percent increase in the use of virtualization in the last few years. Projections continue for very fast-paced growth.
We also see a number of organizations using multiple vendors, when it comes to virtualization. We've also discussed how security and complexity apply to this, and that you need a comprehensive or contextual view of what's going on with your systems -- particularly if you have a mixture of physical and virtual.
Let's look at some examples of how this has been mitigated, how the risk has actually been decreased, and how the fruits, if you will, of virtualization are enjoyed without the pitfalls.
Let's first go to Charu at VMware. Can you offer some examples of how people have used virtualization, done it the right away, avoided some of these pitfalls, and have gained the visibility and analytics and therefore helped with their matured approach to virtualization?
Chaubal: One thing we've done at VMware over the last year and a half is try to provide as much prescriptive guidance as we can. So a lot of securing of virtualization comes down to making sure you actually deploy it [properly].
So, one thing that we've done is created hardening guides that really aim to show customers how this can be done. That's proved to be very popular among our customers.
Not to get into too much detail, but one of the main issues is the fact that you have a virtualization layer that typically has a management interface in it. Then, you have the interface that goes into your virtual machines. People need to understand that this management layer needs to be completely separated from the actual production network.
That principle is manifested in different recommendations and scenarios, when you plan a deployment and configure it. That's just one example where customers have been able to make use of our prospective guidance. Then, they architect something that is actually much more secure than possibly they would have with some preconceived notions that they might have had. I think that's one area where we are seeing success.
Gardner: Let's go to LogLogic. Anton, give us some examples, actual companies or at least use-case scenarios, where the use of LogLogic, or the methodologies that it supports, have brought to bear on virtualization – to lower the cost, increased performance, gain higher utilization, and so forth -- but without some of these risks.
Chuvakin: I'll give an example of a retail company that was using LogLogic for compliance, as well for operational usage, such as troubleshooting their servers. This company, in a separate project, was implementing virtualization to convert some of their infrastructure to a virtual machine.
At some point, those two projects mainly had their log management to track operations to satisfy PCI requirements. These issues collided with the virtualization projects, and the company realized that they now have to not just collect logs from the physical infrastructure, but also from the virtual side that is now being built.
What happened was that the logs from the virtual infrastructure were also streamed into LogLogic. Now, LogLogic has the ability to collect any type of a log. In this case, we did use that capability to collect the log, which were at the time not even supported or analyzed by LogLogic.
The customers understood that they have to collect the logs from the virtual platforms, and that LogLogic has an ability to collect any type of a log. They first started from a log collection effort, so that they could always go back and say, "We've got this data somewhere, and you can go and investigate it."
We also built up a package of contents to analyze the logs as they were starting their collection efforts to have logs ready for users. At LogLogic, we built and set up reports and searches to help them go through the data. So, it was really going in parallel with that, building up some analytic content to make sense of the data, if a customer already has a collection effort, which included logs from the virtual platform.
In this case, it was actually a great success story because we used part of the LogLogic infrastructure that doesn't rely on any preconceived notions of what the logs are. Then, they built up on top of that to help them pinpoint the issues with their VMs to see who accesses the platforms, what applications people use to manage the environment, and, basically, to track all sorts of interest in events in their virtual infrastructure.
I have to admit that it wasn't really tested on their PCI yet, but I'm pretty confident that their PCI auditors will accept what they did for the virtual environment. And, they would satisfy the requirements of PCI, which calls for logging and monitoring, as well as the requirements in the compliance mandate.
At the same time, while they are building it for that use, their analysts are already trying to do searches and look certain things that might be out of order in their VM environment. An operational use-case spontaneously emerged, and now they not only have their own idea for what to look for, but also our content to do that.
Gardner: You bring up a point here that we shouldn't overlook. This isn't something that you just build and walk away from. It requires ongoing refinement tuning. The dynamic nature of virtualization, while perhaps automated in terms of allocating resources, is an overall process that needs to be managed in order for these business outcomes to be enjoyed.
Let's go back to Chris at Unisys. Tell us about the ongoing nature of virtualization. How do you keep on top of it? How do you keep it performing well, and perhaps even eke out more optimized utilization benefits?
Hoff: There's not a whole lot of difference in terms of how you might apply the same query to non-virtualized infrastructure. It's not a monolithic single-time event, but, as I alluded to in a previous answer, the next extension should be evolution along the continuum. That notion of real-time infrastructure really does take in the concept of a lot of tasks.
Today, we are quite operationally inefficient in doing that, both from the perspective of practice and infrastructure utilization, and really making sure that our infrastructure, and the compute and storage, and all of the things that go into, up in our infrastructure become much more efficient, for power, cost efficiency, utility, and flexibility.
When you unite all of those capabilities, what it's going to mean going forward is a much more rich methodology and model for taking business process and instantiating that as an expression of policy within your infrastructure. So, you can say the things that are most important to your business are these processes, and these services.
What you need to be able to do, and ultimately what it means to automation and the efficiency problems, is that the infrastructure needs to self-govern, self-provision and re-provision. You need to be to able to allocate cost back to your constituents, and it gets closer and closer to becoming a loose, but federated, group of services. It can essentially play and interact in real-time to service the needs of the business.
All the benefits that we get out of virtualization today are just the beginning and kind of the springboard for what we are going to see in terms of automation, which is great. But we are right at the same problem set, as we kind of pogo along this continuum, which is trying really hard to unite this notion of governance and making sure that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. In certain instances the business processes and policies might prescribe that you don't do some things that would otherwise be harmful in your perspective.
It's that delicate balance of security versus operational agility that we need to get much better at, and much more intelligent about, as we use our virtualization as an enabler. That's going to bring some really interesting and challenging things to the forefront in the way in which IT operates -- benefits and then differences.
Gardner: In the way that you were describing this continuum, it almost sounds like you were alluding to cloud computing, as it's being defined more and more -- and perhaps the “private cloud,” where people would be managing their internal enterprise IT resources from a cloud perspective. Am I overstating it?
Hoff: No, I don't think you're overstating it. I think that's a reasonable assertion and assumption based on what I am saying. The difficulty in using the "cloud" word is that it means a lot of things to lots of people. I think you brought up three definitions in your one sentence.
But the notion of being able to essentially utilize our resources pretty much anywhere, regardless of who owns the infrastructure, is something that's enticing and brings up a host of wonderful issues that make security people like me itchy.
If you read Nicolas Carr's book The Big Switch, and you think about utility or grid computing or whatever you want to call it -- the notion of being able to better utilize my resources, balance that with security, and be very agile -- it's fun times ahead. You are absolutely right. I was alluding to the C-word, yes.
Gardner: Okay. Charu at VMware, given that organizations are at different rates of adoption around virtualization -- some are just starting to test the waters -- but the end goal for some of these adopters could be this cloud-compute value, this fabric of IT value.
How are people getting started, and how should they get started in a way that sets them up for this longer-term payoff?
Chaubal: That's a very broad question, but I think it is important that you can go in and use virtualization to consolidate physical servers on to smaller number of physical servers, and you get that savings that way. If that's the approach you take, you might end up at a dead-end, or you might get off on a tangent somewhere.
What we find is that there is really a maturity curve when it comes to virtualization adoption, and one of the most important axes along that curve is, in a broad sense, your operational maturity.
When you are starting out, sure, go ahead and consolidate servers. That's a good way to get some quick wins, but you're rapidly going to come to a point where you need to start to imposing an operational discipline and policies and procedures that perhaps you didn't have before.
Perhaps you had them, but they weren't all that rigidly adhered to or weren't really followed all the time. The most important thing is that you start thinking about this operational maturity, and then go to things like being able to standardize upon processes and standardize upon the way things are configured.
Any kind of process you do, make sure it goes through the right steps in terms of getting it approved. There is a whole methodology around that, and that's one of the things that we spend a lot of time with our customers.
We have this graph where, if you can look at how many servers are virtualized over time, we would like to see a steady upward 45-degree angle to that curve. If somebody virtualizes too many too soon, you will see that curve shoot up sharply. Then, you repeat yourself, because you virtualized so much so quickly, and all these other issues that Chris alluded to come into play, and they might bog you down.
On the other hand, you could suffer the other extreme where you virtualize so slowly, that the curve is very shallow, and you end up leaving savings and benefits on the table, because you are just picking them up so slowly.
Gardner: Missed opportunities, right?
Chaubal: Right, exactly. The most important thing, when you are starting out, is to keep that in mind that you are not just installing a piece of software that will optimize what you have already. It's really a fundamental transformation in how you do things.
Gardner: Okay, let's take the last question to Anton at LogLogic. How do you recommend people get started, particularly in reaching this balance between wanting not to miss opportunities, wanting to be able to ramp up quickly and to enjoy the benefits that virtualization provide, but doing it in such a way that they get that visibility and analytics, and can set themselves up to be risk resistant, but also strategic in their outlook?
Chuvakin: I'll use the case that I just presented to illustrate the way to do it. As has happened with me in technology before virtualization, people will sometimes deploy it in a manner that's really makes auditing and monitoring pretty hard. So they have to go back and figure out what the technologies are doing in terms of transparency and visibility.
I suggest that, as people deploy VMware and other virtualization platforms, they instantly connect those to their log-management tools, and that log collection starts day one.
Admittedly, most of those organizations would not know what to do with those logs, but having those logs as a first step will be important. Even if you don't know how to analyze the log, you don't know what they mean, or what they're trying to tell you, you still have that repository to fall back to.
If you have to investigate an issue, an incident, or an operational issue in an environment, you still have an ability to go back and say, "Oh, something of that sort already happened to me once. Let's see what else occurred at the same time."
Even if you have no skills to delve into the full scope of how to analyze all these signals that virtual infrastructure is sending us, I would focus first on selecting the data and having the data for analysis. When you do that, your future steps or your further steps, when you make sense of the data, will be much more easy, much more transparent, and much more doable overall.
You will have to learn what the signals are, what information is being emitted by your virtual infrastructure, and then make conclusions on that. But, to even analyze the information, to make conclusions, and to figure out what's going on, you have to have the original data.
It's easier to collect the data early, because it's really not a big deal. You just send those logs to LogLogic or the log management system, and they are capable of doing that right away. Now, admittedly, you have to pick a system, such as LogLogic, that can support your virtualization infrastructure and then you can build up your analysis and your understanding and build up your true visibility, sort of the next layer of the intelligence as you go. Don't try to use the analysis right away, but start collecting it day one.
Gardner: Right, visibility early and often. I appreciate your input. We have been talking about virtualization -- how to do it right, how to enjoy lower risk, understanding security implications, but at the same time moving aggressively as you can, because they are significant economic benefits.
Helping us understand virtualization in this context, we have been joined by Charu Chaubal, senior architect in technical marketing at VMware. Thank you, sir.
Chaubal: Thank you.
Gardner: Also Chris Hoff, chief security analyst at Unisys. I really appreciate your input, Chris.
Hoff: Thanks, very much.
Gardner: And also, Dr. Anton Chuvakin, chief logging evangelist and also a security expert at LogLogic. Thank you, sir.
Chuvakin: Thank you so much for inviting me.
Gardner: I would like to thank our sponsor for this podcast, LogLogic. This is Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions. You have been listening to a BriefingsDirect podcast. Thanks, and come back next time.
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Transcript of BriefingsDirect podcast on the management and security challenges of virtualization. Copyright Interarbor Solutions, LLC, 2005-2008. All rights reserved.